Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hey, everyone, Jim Phoenix here. And today's what's cracking. Is crack a lacking.
Never say that again. We've got none other than Edward J. Symbol and his hit book Monsters in Our Shadows. All this and more on this what's cracking. Hit it.
Hey, everyone, Jim Phoenix here. And today we've got a very special guest. We've got the author of Monsters in Our Shadows live on Amazon. Go get it. Edward J. Simba today. Edward, how are you doing?
[00:00:39] Speaker B: I'm good. How you doing?
[00:00:40] Speaker A: I am fantastic. Thank you for asking. Now, I have to say, your book was highly recommended to me by someone I do pay attention to. And I read it, which might be a first for the show, but I read it and I loved it. I loved it. So we got some questions about the book, some question about writing and stuff like that, but my very first question is, why the COVID.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Well, I appreciate you reading it and falling in love with it. That's huge. That's kind of everything. So I think I'm. I'm done here. But hey, the.
The COVID was.
I just sent it to a cover artist whose name escapes me, but I'll remember shortly. He's fantastic. And he read the book and then he came up with the COVID and sent it to me. And there was no revisions, no changes, no input on my end, nothing.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: That is amazing.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: That was just his interpretation of it and he put it out. I sent it to him with the book and then, yeah, he sent that back.
[00:01:43] Speaker A: Now it's amazing if anyone didn't see the Monsters in Our Shadows yet. The book cover reminds me of the old roll shock block test. What do you see? What do you see? What do you see? And then when you look at it differently, you can kind of see.
Although this might be the whole issue of it. You start seeing faces, you start seeing eyes, you start seeing things coming at you.
I think it really does a lot to maintain the imagination of what? Spoiler. There's monsters in this book. Monsters or the shivers could be.
And it kind of like maintains the imagination so you don't have to tell the reader exactly what they're going to look like. Bam. It's like this for always and never. It's going to be more of a. It's probably like this. It could be like this. Your imagination can still run with it. So that's pretty cool. You did that by giving him the book saying, you draw this. That's amazing.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: He absolutely nailed it. Because while there is like the mental health edge in the book, there's also the conversation around that everyone's monsters look very different. You know, the thing that you're battling with every day is different than the thing that I'm battling with every day. But I think the adversity in general is something that we all share. And that's kind of what the book is about with the. The monsters or the shivers represent.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: That's right. Some of us might be Chicago Bear fans, some of us might be liquor fans, but we're all. That's just. This is me. Yeah.
[00:03:12] Speaker B: Or Leaf fans.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: Yay for making me feel better.
I don't root for the Leafs. At least that's good. Yeah.
[00:03:19] Speaker B: You're in Montreal, right?
[00:03:21] Speaker A: Montreal. It means I'm Blackhawks and Knights. I'm a trans. Yeah. I couldn't vote for the Canadians. Just lost all my Montreal and Ottawa listeners right now. Ottawa Senators. Nevermind the Toronto ones.
So some monsters are, you know, monsters of the ice, I guess. And I will say this is dystopian fiction.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: But yeah, I mean, I will say that it was meant to be.
I didn't write it for genre, for better or worse. I just kind of wrote it as a cathartic experience. And it so happened that it has a bit of a dystopian angle in terms of setting, but it is, I would say, more of a horror or a speculative fiction adventure. I'm not really sure how I would.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Genre it. But what do you. What would you.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: That's the thing. I was reading this book. I can see how it is dystopian because, you know, as to MSD3k, not to so different feature. Right. But it's more beyond that. Like if you take it out of the time, it could happen at any time. This could be the past. This could be like now. It's not necessarily a dystopian future. It could be more of a.
What would you do? It's not body horror, but it's more a psychological. Like almost a gothic horror.
[00:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:50] Speaker A: The monsters that, you know, are feeding off of people. This is not giving away any major plot twist. We're not going to spoil the book. This is basically from, you know, humanity has been devoured by the edge of the extinction by shivers. Nightmarish creatures with an insatiable hunger bound to torment their hosts until they finally feed. That can happen if you close your eyes. That's like, oh, that could be capitalism, by the way. You know, it could be. We just had Black Friday, September, Monday. Yeah. Like it could be anything from there. It could be like an allegory for something like that or it really could just be the dark, dark version of our world.
The things that we don't talk about.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: The way it's happening right now. Right.
The things that are happening in the book. There is a monster around your back right now that is doing something, and it's up to you to fight it or let it consume you, so on and so forth. But I just thought that this crumbling city, when the rest of the world's been kind of devoured to the edge of extinction, like you said, was kind of just an interesting place to play because I can get rid of the typical rules of society and kind of just play to the core of the theme.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: Well, I like that. It also gives it a bit of a monster in the house, because part of the book is like, you just don't leave the city. If you do, very bad things happen.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:06] Speaker A: And I was like, I like that.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: Monster in the house. Yeah, it is very much like that, isn't it?
[00:06:10] Speaker A: Traps you in. And then as we read, we. We see there's an exile list, which I. I did. Where'd you get the name Exile? It's a pretty cool term, by the way. Where'd you get. Where'd you think that went up? Exile list?
[00:06:23] Speaker B: Oh, I wish I could tell you where the ideas came from.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: It just popped in.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: I'm not sure. They probably popped in. It might have had something to do with the Exorcist and then playing off the idea that he is exiling people. So the Exilist.
[00:06:37] Speaker A: Oh, I love that.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: I don't think it's far from that.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I love that. So I was like, oh, this is really cool. And there's kind of like, you know, reminds you of like, the Exorcist and it was a bad thing. Reminded of and. Okay, I cannot name characters to save anyone's life. How did you get anthem?
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Oh, that's another one. The. The book I'm writing right now, I'm struggling to find a better name. Okay. So I agree with you. It's a great name.
Don't know where it came from. The. I think the. The concept was that he's.
This is me pretending that I know what I'm talking about. He's kind of an anthem for everybody facing the same things that he's facing. So he's meant to be, you know, not a white knight. He's meant to be, like, very much an anthem for. Again, the theme.
But yeah, the anthem was. It just. It just fit. It just kind of clicked and it was him.
I like the first time I think a character came out with the name started before the character, really. Usually the character comes and then the name. The name fits in or changes and then fits into what the character ends up being. I often rename characters, but most things were kind of set and forget it. Like Melody. I love that name.
And they all kind of seem to have their own allegory and metaphor as they went along.
[00:08:05] Speaker A: No, I agree, it is.
A, as a reader, I think the name really does fit. And B, as a writer, I am glad I'm not the only one that goes, okay, your name today is John. John. Hold on. That's a bad name. I have a name. John. What the hell is I thinking? Yeah, it's actually this one now. Yeah, yeah.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: I've got a character right now that's gone through three iterations of names. And I swear, every time I sit down, it changes. So this draft, his name is three different names. Do you.
[00:08:38] Speaker A: When you correct the name, this is getting back into the. A little bit into the craft. When you correct the name, are you doing a fine replace or are you like, really just going, oh, damn it. I now have to really go one by one by one and making sure I change the guy's name.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: I usually do like a, the next pass on the draft. So if someone's name, for example, like, is John, and then I find out that they're know really like a Samuel, then the name will be Samuel for the rest of the draft until their name changes to Oliver.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: And then when I get to the draft three, I'll go back and I'll remember, oh, yeah, that's, you know, it's not Samuel or John anymore, it's Oliver. And I'll.
[00:09:16] Speaker A: Oh, so you do it while you're editing draft by draft.
[00:09:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I try not to go back as much as I can because I have a bad habit of getting stuck on like a chapter or the first 20 pages or a certain scene, and I can go through and edit that to death. So I really try to steamroll ahead and capture my next draft because when you, as you know, when you get to the end of a book or, you know, three scenes later, you realize that that original scene that you're working on before has changed regardless, because those characters have changed, the situation could have changed. Some things have come to light or some things don't work.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:49] Speaker B: So I do try to kind of steamroll ahead.
[00:09:52] Speaker A: That's kind of it. And sometimes with the end of the book, you're like, well, that's not where the book starts anymore. I guess I have to throw those chapters out. I don't know.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Killing your darlings.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: How do you kill your darlings?
[00:10:05] Speaker A: It was like cyanide. I think that works sometimes.
Because we're now writing now. Man, I'm old. We are writing in the event of the. Not even the advent anymore. We're just doing it in the age of. We're processing where I will. If I really like the line, if I really. I have to really convince myself I really like this line or I really like that chapter plot, I will put it into a cut file, like a little folder on my desktop.
[00:10:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: And that way maybe a short story comes from it later on. Usually I'll go through it once. Never.
It's like a junk drawer, basically.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: But do you just, like. Are you hardcore? Like, screw it dead, Bon.
[00:10:52] Speaker B: No, I actually. I have something similar. So I do have a working file and I've titled it Darling's Grave. So I just. I shove. I just dig graves for my darlings, kill them and throw them in there with the intention that I'll probably go back and use them with the reality that I never do.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: Yes, that's exactly. It is the intention of. Nothing you made can be that bad. It just didn't work this time. Yeah.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: Have you read the Stephen King on writing?
[00:11:19] Speaker A: Yes. I love that book.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: I love it too. So he's got this great chapter where he talks about killing your darlings. And the whole idea is like, if you think that line is good, it better be good. Because the next line after it better be good. All of your lines better be better. The fact that it's good isn't good enough, but for a reason to keep it in.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Right.
[00:11:38] Speaker B: Which, you know, easy for him to say. Maybe, but. Yeah.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: Oh, but that's. That does bring up a. That's brilliant line. I think that's correct. Like, you're not like, oh, this line's crap. I'm gonna keep it in. No, yeah, exactly. Nothing like that. His way of editing helped me a lot. And it's the same way I teach now. If you try to edit something, I. Okay, I know Jack Vernon does edit a different way. Jack's a historical fictionist. He will. Might be underneath John Vernon now. He will write a chapter one day and then back up two or three pages of that chapter and start from there to edit a bit and then keep writing the next chapter.
I. I don't work that way. I have to do the. Throw it all up and blp, it all at once.
And once we do that, I have to put it in the freezer.
Like I have to put it in the freezer and just, you know, not so much never see it again. Just never see it for like six months before I can add it.
Are you somewhat similar?
[00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm trying to think of a teacher that I had.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: If it's Jack Vernon, it'd be fun.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: Both names. Yeah, let's. Let's call it that.
Where it's like you go. You go back a chapter and you edit that and then continue writing the next day from where you started yesterday. So you start with editing what you wrote yesterday and then you move in. I find that I just will stay on what I was writing yesterday. Because you can edit, you know, you can edit forever.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:24] Speaker B: I think putting in the freezer is kind of the. Is kind of the best thing you can do.
[00:13:29] Speaker A: Absolutely. And speaking of freezers, how long did it take you from start of the idea to book launch for this book?
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's a. I mean, for this book specifically, there was a book before it that I. That I buried. I. Darling's grave isn't big enough for that, but there's another grave where. There's. Where this book lives.
And I actually picked up some of my, like my editor from there and stuff as well. So there's some help on that. So when I started Monsters, it kind of snowballed quickly, but it still took about three and a half years.
I looked at this the other day and quite a few drafts.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: That's good, though.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: And then.
Yeah, it's not. I. I really like obsessed over it and like. And lived it. And again, like, it was a cathartic experience. We talked about, you know, kind of the things that. A couple things that I was dealing with at the time. And yeah, I kind of had to write. So I was fortunate enough, I guess, that it really was, you know, medicine writing like this and getting it around the page and then kind of like putting it all together and, you know, obsessing over, you know, story by McKee and all that kind of stuff kind of helped keep it tight, you know.
Yeah, about. I'd say about three, three and a half years probably from.
[00:14:49] Speaker A: That's pretty. Especially pretty tight. I mean, I've seen people. I won't mention their names myself, maybe like 10 years, like, it's like move this way. Yeah. And then sometimes I. I've. I've done quicker too. And usually the quicker I go, the worse it is because it's Kind of like you just rushing. And if you're rushing, you forget things.
[00:15:13] Speaker B: Like, this is something that I'm struggling with right now is. Is kind of like how fast I should be producing.
[00:15:20] Speaker A: Publishing.
[00:15:21] Speaker B: People say six months.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:23] Speaker B: Or a year. And I'm like, I don't know what, Six months. That seems tight. But people write it in three.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:15:31] Speaker B: To what quality? I'm not sure.
[00:15:33] Speaker A: That's what the thing is. Like, it's. What's King Cycle? It looks like King's got one every year out, but he's also Stephen King and he's been doing this for like, what was it, 40 years now? 50. I don't even know anymore.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: Well, that's the trick, isn't it? He writes 2,000 words minimum a day. Sometimes he gets 4,000, but it's every single day, seven days a week.
[00:15:51] Speaker A: It's also.
[00:15:52] Speaker B: And then when he hands it off to an editor. Yeah, yeah. And he knows exactly. Like, he's. He's got. Got it locked in.
[00:15:58] Speaker A: Yeah. He's not worrying. Like, how, like, how the hell do I get a. I need to get an editor. What the hell? Yeah, he's set cover artist. What? Yeah, it's more like, which one Is this going to be, a movie or miniseries? Speaking of movie and miniseries, the Monsters in Our Shadows developed for a major motion picture. Is you making this as a feature?
Yeah, Creature feature. I like that.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Like a feature. Feature. Feature. The. Yeah, it's, it's. It's often been shipped and shopped. Right now we've got a script that I co wrote.
[00:16:30] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: And yeah, it's on its way. There's been some exciting announcements and studios and potential actors that I can't, unfortunately.
[00:16:39] Speaker A: Just yet, but no worries when it comes.
[00:16:41] Speaker B: Pretty exciting.
[00:16:42] Speaker A: I can't wait. I mean, I do ask for an advanced copy or a screener or at least, you know, autograph a DVD or.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: You know, you've got it.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: A vhs. Do you still do Betamax? Do one of those.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: We'll do that. Yeah, we'll get it on a VHS and I'll send it over to you.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: We'll burn like $12,000 to burn on one VHS tape.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: Just rewind it. Yeah.
[00:17:06] Speaker A: Oh, I can't do that.
I need Infinite. So for those of you who are like, what the hell is a VHS or Betamax? Well, way back when, that's what we said.
LaserDisc came. No, that's great. I know. You said story. I'm like, wait a minute, you're doing the screenwriting thing. Did you find the screenwriting books also help your writing for novels very much.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: So they're almost one for one.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Right. And I think that's very underlooked in some of the author classes. Like, oh, no. Novel writing, like, no, Story structure is still story structure.
[00:17:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. I think script writing is so tight and it removes all the wonderful fluff and metaphor and all that. So when you're you. When you're writing the script, it's really just the bare bones direction. Actor walks across the room with, you know, whatever.
And then the dialogue is not so exploratory or expositional as it might be in a novel, which is interesting because you can use dialogue in interesting ways in a novel that kind of tells you where they are, how they're feeling and that kind of stuff. When in a script, you kind of using the action more on screen visually to do that and you don't want to be, you know, talking too much in dialogue. So that was a tough thing to get over. But otherwise, yeah, I mean, for like Save the Cat specifically and things like that, it is very much, I think one to one, it's story structure, you know, it's starting with, you know, goal and then a conflict. Then there's the disaster that happens. How do they deal with that? And then what are their options after that? And that starts the next scene. You know, I think it's the same.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: Kind of Save the Cat. Blake Snyder, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I teach.
Gosh, I adapted that to teach writing and then they adapted it much better than I did. I'm like, shit. Well, okay, I guess that was a good idea. But they did better as their system and I think haven't read both.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: Is it the same or how did you adapt it from script writing to novels?
[00:19:15] Speaker A: I have the screenplay version of it and because I was teaching. God, I forgot where. Somewhere in Montreal. I was teaching screenplay and I was like, I need something that's going to be. I mean, I had them read Poetics. Like, I'm like, oh, crap. Went back too far.
It might be too far for 2020 right now. Let me dial this back. And I was trying to find like a new, new way of teaching and I did McKay's. My God, you know, it made me too thick and like, boom. Save the Cat. Brilliant short. It's punchy. You can teach the crap out of it within a semester, you know, however many sweets it was. And then I was thinking, I need to teach people how to read a book, like how to actually read a story. And just for. For different Class.
And you can do, like, rising action, falling action, and the old, like, chart plants. I'm like, oh, that's cool. But if you break it down in, like, a movie, because people see movies, they don't read books anymore.
Like, okay, you can map this book to, like, a movie. It'd be great. And, yeah, I made, like, an outline from Save the Cat for short story and book reading and writing.
[00:20:26] Speaker B: Perfect.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: And then about a year after that, they came out with, like, Save the Cat for books. I've looked at the inside a bit. I know. It's just like, oh, this is, like, a lot more examples. Let's just like, Save the Cat for screenwriting, but for books.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: All right.
[00:20:40] Speaker A: They went better off of it. But. So you're doing Save the Cat. You're doing. You said story. Who else would you.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: I mean, at the. Stephen King on writing.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: I think writing, yeah.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: Honestly, I think the best education for writing is reading, like, a wide breadth of material and genre and authors and different backgrounds and from different lives. And that kind of. I think, if anything, is the best education, at least for me. I don't know about you, but it makes me a slow reader because I'm constantly analyzing something. I'll feel something in a book. I'm like, wait, why did I feel that? And then I went back, you know, three or four pages and kind of rant back up into that and be like, oh, I see what they did. This is amazing. Or, you know, you get swept up in something and you finish it quickly and you reread it. I just reread Misery.
Stop talking about King. And it's funny because it's almost the ramblings of a crazed man in that situation, but still, the use of that as a metaphor and the way that they rise, the action, create tension, let it go. Where that's happening is really interesting. So I think just reading with intent, I would say, is probably the best education for writing.
[00:21:59] Speaker A: I think you're right. I.
[00:22:00] Speaker B: Or a brilliant teacher like yourself.
Well, but also reading.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's part of it. It's a lot of the places where you are doing training on the job, you are actually doing the job. You're doing parts of the job, and that's how you learn. And for writing, it's the reading part that has to come first. Yeah. You have to be a good reader. You have to consume. You have to then understand why Stephen King did the sentence this way instead of that way. You know, how long are rhythm is so important. How long are sentence? How Short. Are they now?
[00:22:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: Where's the flow of the page take you whatever it's going to be? And you can only really get that through reading.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And then practicing that on your own. Yeah. At least. At least one for one as much as you read. Maybe you should be writing. You definitely shouldn't be only writing. You definitely shouldn't only be reading. Definitely have to do both. You mentioned.
[00:22:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: You mentioned rhythm. And I don't know if you're a big fan of music or if you play any instruments, but for me, it's very much like writing or composing music.
It really feels like you're writing the verse and you're trying to punch the chorus and you're getting to the next verse. You want to bridge in there, that kind of thing. It's funny how art has so many parallels.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Absolutely. And I. I love music, and that's. I just hit my mind. And I think that's kind of why when I read something, if the rhythm is wrong, it's just chalked as nails on a chalkboard for me. I'm like, oh, this is great prose. The rhythm sucks. You know, I just can't read any more of this. I just like, no, you start running away.
So that's. That's part of it. And being a writer is sometimes. Okay. So you sent this manuscript out to an editor. Did they chop it, or they just do the tightening or what?
[00:23:54] Speaker B: It's. It's funny because I sent it off to him and it came back and it was. It's. I mean, you've. You've experienced this, but it was the same thing, but it was like, I guess, slightly tightened. Yeah. And a couple of things were adjusted. But I think this is just a testament to Andrew Lowe as the editor was a great editor. And he just.
He didn't change my voice at all. He didn't change anything. He just tightened things up and it read like me. It felt like me, that everything was still in the same spot and it was me, but just again, like you mentioned, just a little bit tighter.
In the last novel, I sent it off to another editor and they changed it up drastically. And I was like, this doesn't read like me at all.
And I didn't use them again. But it's. Yeah, I think the testimony.
[00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. There's that personal relationship. It really is. And people don't. When I'm looking at some sites like, I'll be this editor, I'm like, well, no, if I. And if I tell you a dick joke and you Blush. I'm like, oh, you can't read none of my stuff now.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Like, I'm sorry.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Like, if dick joke makes you blush, just you wait. Yeah, so, yeah, you can see that.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: In some novels too. I was reading King Fisher last night, and there's in the Hollow Places. You can tell it's edited differently than like A sorcerer comes to call. And it's almost like. There's almost like letting her speak true to herself a bit more in one than the other. At least that was my interpretation. It felt like she was really more on the page, if that makes sense, then tightened up. But yeah, that's always interesting, is the role of an editor and how much they're in the story and how much they're getting out of the way.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's part of. Okay, I'm from. This is me showing up. I don't know. I'm really showing up. I'm from SUNY Binghamton. We're known for turning down Raymond Carver.
Like, oh, we don't want Raymond Carver coming teaching for us. That would be horrifically good for us. But there was like the whole Lish thing where beginners versus what we talk about when we talk about love. Same story, but one's very heavily edited for minimalism, for Lish.
And it drove Carver. Well, if it doesn't spoiler alert, Carver's dead. But it drove him, we believe, to drink even more.
Because Carver wasn't writing to be minimalist. He was writing his stories. And let's just like edited the out of it. But those edited the out of stories became super popular.
And so you have that where even an editor can be beneficial for you in the long run. It's kind of like it hurts because it's not your voice.
And sometimes it hurts because it's not your voice. Yeah, right.
[00:27:02] Speaker B: And I wonder if what we talk about when we talk about love was heavily edited or more himself.
[00:27:13] Speaker A: It's a side by side, and it's actually a different story when you read it side by side. It's like, oh, wow, it's. It's so bizarre. And then this can go back to. You have a book that you started, you finished, you looked at and said, nope, you put it in the kill box. Do you ever think about coming back to that one?
[00:27:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I do.
[00:27:36] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:27:36] Speaker B: I don't think I was equipped to write that one. I think I was biting off more than I could chew. It's a different genre too. But, um, I. That one's. That one's on the table.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: And then there's so many others like it kind of like the idea bank is kind of overflowing. So I'm trying to pick the best ones next. And unfortunately, it takes a while to write a novel. So by the time you finish this one, you've got, you know, ten more ideas.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:03] Speaker B: And then there is the concept for anybody who read the Monsters in Our Shadows or who will read the Monsters in Our Shadows, a potential novella specifically for Zoe's story. Oh, yes, I'm starting to workshop. And if anybody wants to read it, maybe then I'll. I'll buckle down and get that one out next.
[00:28:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. I do read it and put it on if it comes out as a film.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:28:28] Speaker A: No, it. For those who did not have the Monsters in Our Shadows again, it's on.
I mean, it's blowing up. Amazon right now is Goodreads has got a bazillion ratings. So get it, read it. And for the first two people who slide in my dms, we're going to get you the ebook version of Monsters in Our Shadows by Edward J. Simbo. C M B A L Come DM us first two get it. Bam. You're welcomes readers. Now. Now I will say this from there's old comedian, I guess, friend of mine or queens nowadays, Pete Corelli said there's no thing, no such thing as a bad joke. It's just a joke you're not strong enough to tell yet. And I think that applies to writing that that first book wasn't a bad book that you killed. It just was a book that you weren't strong enough as a writer yet. And you're getting, especially with Monsters in Our Shadows. If it's anything what you're. If your writing goes from there, my gosh, sky's the limit for you, right? And I think that's gonna be worth coming back to. But is it the genre you want to write in? Because you said it's a different genre. Are you a genre specialist? Are you kind of like branching out in different ones or what?
[00:29:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good question. The. So a lot of the big five publishers, they are kind of like talking more about genre than I'm maybe potentially interested in. But I am aware that there's. There's a market specific for genre and readers find books around genre. So I do want to do a service around, around that, at least to the reader.
I don't know if I'm, I would say genre specialist in any way. I don't think I can help writing horror. I Don't think I can help writing things that are kind of dark and like kind of push that line, right? If it's dystopian. No, the next book I'm writing right now isn't dystopian at all.
But in terms of like the dark and macabre and maybe, you know, etching on horror there, I don't think I can help that.
Secondary genres around that or primary or tertiary, I don't know. But I would say always dark and then see what follows.
[00:30:41] Speaker A: I love that. Always dark and see what follows. Beautiful said. Now again, if you want Monsters in Our Shadows by Edward J. Symbol, you can DM us for the first two people. DM the first two. Sorry, supplies are limited. Electrons are busy. Ebook Bam. Now I have to have to ask because I am interested when you're writing the we'll say the possible spin off the possible follow up.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: Because this is being optioned or developed as a major motion picture. Do you now write with that actor or actress in mind?
[00:31:26] Speaker B: No.
[00:31:28] Speaker A: So it's like, screw it. No matter what ships me file, this is what I'm doing that can be adapted later.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's also, you know, the kind of a. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's. It's for the reader and I to share in general who this person might end up being in their heads versus my heads. And I don't think just the way my brain works, the.
I don't think there's an actor that can necessarily fit so well into everything.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: The monsters, who they have, who they have picked, I mean, I think is perfect.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: But.
[00:32:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And I don't. I don't write with a particular face or person or anything in mind. It's just they kind of come out on the page. If that sounds pretentious, it's true.
[00:32:14] Speaker A: No, no, I don't think it sounds pretentious.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: They tell me who they are, you know.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I think that's what it should be because if I've seen people who will write for a particular actor and A, if the actor passes and they just screwed up, B, you just limited yourself, right? You just limited like now, you know, quote, unquote, know who that actor is. And now you wrote for that. But. And you know, anyone says I know this actor, you don't really. I mean, you might know them, but you don't really know know them. You only see what these want you to see because they're. Their job is to act. Their job is literally to be in public. And act like someone else, and you limit yourself as a writer. I think if you're like, I'm gonna.
[00:32:57] Speaker B: Take this Persona, especially in novel format, it's such a job of uncovering and treasure hunting that I think you really hold yourself back by doing that. Saying that, though we did actually, the co writer myself did, just for the script, had an opportunity where there's an actor who asked us to write a story for him in a specific format, in a genre, and as a specific character that he wanted to do. And still, even then, I'm not writing with him in mind.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: I'm assuming that he hope he'll be able to, you know, change and form himself to fit this character. Not that it's that far off or a hard character to play, but even then I see the character on the page and not him.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's, like, the true artistic integrity right there. I love it. Now, I know we need to wrap this up because we. 30 minutes. Next.
If there was advice that you can give the younger version of you about writing, about art, about whatever, what would you do? What would you say?
[00:34:22] Speaker B: Probably just keep going.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:34:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:27] Speaker A: Keep going. Keep running. Keep going. Keep pushing.
I think that's. That's pretty spot on for a lot of it, especially if you are a writer. It's a lot of lonely nights and days.
You know, you don't.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: You're so unsure about everything.
[00:34:45] Speaker A: Yeah. It's. You can go to a movie premiere. It can see people react to it. There's no book premiere where, you know, watch people read for three hours silently.
Yeah.
[00:34:56] Speaker B: I'm not sure how you are with sharing your work as you go. Do you. Do you share it as you go, or do you hold it tight and then share when it's done?
[00:35:04] Speaker A: Kind of. Kind of. Kind of. I came through a program where we had writing workshops, and so they would see bits of my book before it came out.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:35:17] Speaker A: But like, to the general public. Oh, fuck, no.
[00:35:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I kept the whole thing. I kept the whole thing under wraps.
[00:35:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: I told my wife that I was writing, but she didn't even know the main character's name or the title of the book until I handed it to her.
[00:35:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:35] Speaker B: I told nobody that I was even writing.
[00:35:37] Speaker A: I think that is very lonely. Yeah, No, I think that's very.
[00:35:41] Speaker B: It was good. I think it served the story. I think I'm going to keep doing that, but.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:48] Speaker B: Looking for confirmation and validation externally, I don't think is the move.
[00:35:54] Speaker A: Oh, no, that's like. It's like, so antithetical. Like, oh, no, don't do that. Because then you're starting, like, you gotta.
[00:36:00] Speaker B: Find it in you.
[00:36:01] Speaker A: Yeah. What was the. Like you get. And they might mean the best. They'll say, like, ah, it's great. Have you thought about, I don't know, making a clown? Like, oh, no. But now that's all I think of. Like, shit's a bad idea. But that's the only thing I can think now is making a fucking clown.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Or they'd say something like, you know, oh, oh, I would do this.
[00:36:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: And it just, it's. It's. It's just. It might take you. It might be a good idea. I'm not sure.
[00:36:25] Speaker A: But it's.
[00:36:25] Speaker B: Then all of a sudden, not 100 you. For better or worse, I'm not sure. But I do think at least the first draft, I would write that in the dark.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: You have to. I agree.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: I wouldn't say anything to anyone, man. Not even myself after that. I don't know what the hell I'm writing.
Oh, I'm doing this. Okay, keep going. Oh, man. So I will say this is gonna be 2024. When this comes out, December 2024. What are your plans for 25?
[00:36:56] Speaker B: What are your plans for 25 in terms of writing? I'm just gonna keep writing. I'm hopefully releasing this next book.
[00:37:03] Speaker A: Nice.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: Before May.
We'll see.
Depends the interest around it. But yeah, I think I'm gonna try to get this next book done. I've got short stories that I'm kind of just.
That I'm putting together and will probably release as a. Multiple short stories in a book. I'm not sure when. It could be a few years. It could be next year. I don't know yet. But that's just kind of like if I need a break from the main story, I go and write like a short story and then.
[00:37:31] Speaker A: That's decent.
[00:37:32] Speaker B: Collect those over the years.
[00:37:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Every size your brain.
[00:37:36] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. And just kind of like play around with other characters and other scenarios. But I think, yeah, I'm just going to write this next book, try to release it this year, and then get the next one and keep going. Well, that's my advice for my future. My current self actually too.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: I love it. It's advice all around, I think. Just keep going. I think that's the main thing. And if you want Monsters in Our Shadows by Edward J. Simba, C, E M, B, A L, you can go to Amazon or you just DM me. One free copy for two people. Boom. Ebook done. So, and I have to say, we talked about a lot and I dig it. I always love author talks. It's like shooting shit, talking shop and stuff like that. And I love the book, man. The Monsters in Our Shadows. I read it. I couldn't put it down, which is weird because I had to go through security at an airport and, like, put that. I'm like, no, I can't, man. It's coming with me.
And I appreciate that airport somewhere for it. But, hey, it was worth it for me. Worth it? Yeah, yeah. Like, oh, it's not a piece of metal. Don't worry. I. I can't say.
I can say I look for the next one. There you go. I think all the reviews, like, just one says just, wow. I think that's pretty accurate from John Kelly.
[00:38:52] Speaker B: I appreciate that. Thank you. It's also, if I can throw in some self promotion, too horrible. Indigo, Barnes and Noble, Waterstones, and your local bookstore. If it's not there, Ask.
[00:39:07] Speaker A: Ask. It's exactly. People are like, why can't I find at my local. Ask for it.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:13] Speaker A: They want to buy you the books that you want to buy. They need to know it, right? Ask libraries, too. Ask for your library.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: Yep, yep. It's around. It's around.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: Yep. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for coming and behalf of myself and Edward J. Symbol. I like to say this has been a great season. Thanks everyone for streaming into what's cracking and our interviews. We got more coming up next year. Bye, all. Thanks again, buddy.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: Thanks.
